Discussion:
One reason healthcare is so expensive
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RGrannus
2009-10-12 12:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Here is one example of how doctors and hospitals lie or distort the
facts for their own interests, which is one reason healthcare is so
expensive.

In testimony before the NJ Assembly Health and Human Services a few
months ago, Dennis McGill, Director of the Emergency Department,
Somerset Medical Center, gave a few examples of how they had to hold
patients in the emergency department for days before they could find a
bed in a psychiatric ward:
.
"On a recent weekend, for example, we had a shift where we were
holding nine patients that were waiting psychiatric disposition" and
how it took days to find a bed in a psychiatric facility for them. He
also notes that "The psychiatric screening is done by a certified
psychiatric screener, who determines if the patient needs to be
hospitalized." The implication being that there are not enough beds
in psychiatric facilities.

In fact, I recently visited a relative with depression who was in two
psychiatric wards in New Jersey for a week. From what I saw, and from
what he told me, about half the rooms were totally unoccupied. And
the "treatment" he received was essentially nonexistent or useless.
The patients almost never saw a psychiatrist or even a nurse. The
"treatment" consisted of some pep talks from social workers or
counselors. Most of the time they sat around doing nothing.

AFTER being released, he went back to treatment from his own doctor,
who gave him an antidepressant that resolved his depression in a few
weeks. What he did get from the hospitals and associated doctors were
bills for around $30,000.

BTW, those "certified screeners" who determine if a patient needs to
be hospitalized are not psychiatrists or medical professionals at
all. And they have a vested interest in finding patients for
psychiatric wards to justify their jobs. Investigation found that
some screeners and doctors were getting bounties from psychiatry
hospitals and wards for directing patients to them. The hospitals get
paid one way or another--through insurance, by the patient himself if
not insured (and they charge the uninsured much more), or by charity
care paid by the government for impoverished patients. The
psychiatrists just rubber stamps whatever the screener recommends
since that's also in their own interest.

Read the following articles; here are excerpts: "U.S. Representative
Patricia Schroeder of Colorado held hearings investigating the
practices of psychiatric hospitals in the United States. Her
committee's summary: "Our investigation has found that thousands of
adolescents, children, and adults have been hospitalized for
psychiatric treatment they didn't need; that hospitals hire bounty
hunters to kidnap patients...that psychiatrists are being pressured by
the hospitals to increase profit; that hospitals 'infiltrate' schools
by paying kickbacks to school counselors who deliver students; that
bonuses are paid to hospital employees, including psychiatrists, for
keeping the hospital beds filled.

"The supposed experts responsible for these "diagnoses" are usually
biased in favor of commitment because of their personal economic
concerns or their affiliation with the psychiatric "hospital" or ward
where the "patient" is or will be confined. Psychiatric "hospitals",
like all businesses, need customers. In the case of psychiatric
"hospitals" [or wards], they need patients. They not only want
patients, they need them to stay in business. Similarly, individual
psychiatrists and psychologists need patients to make money and earn a
living....Keeping all those psychiatric beds filled is critical, and
administrators are aggressively ensuring that they will be. Some
facilities even resort to paying employees and others bonuses of $500
to $1,000 per referral. An administrator at a psychiatric "hospital"
told me competition between psychiatric hospitals is "cut throat".
Combine this intense competition with America's poorly written
involuntary commitment laws and judges who refuse to impose protection
from unwarranted commitment that bona-fide due process requires, and
the result is a lot of people being deprived of liberty and suffering
psychiatric stigma unjustifiably."

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/unjustif.htm

"Some psychiatric hospitals made a practice of admitting adolescents
in distress, using the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. The federal
government finally intervened, charging the hospitals with fraud and
assessing fines of millions of dollars. Many of these children did
not have bipolar disorder at all, but were acting inappropriately
because of stresses in their families, with their friends, and at
school." --Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at
Seacoast Mental Health Center, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, in _The
Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_ (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New
York, 2000, pages 13-14.) Dr. Drummond graduated from Tufts
University School of Medicine and was trained in psychiatry at Harvard
University."

http://www.cchr.org/take_action/report_psychiatric_abuse.html
"Vulnerable people who have sought help from psychiatrists and
psychologists have been falsely diagnosed and forced to undergo
unwanted and often harmful psychiatric methods."
Werner
2009-10-12 16:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by RGrannus
Here is one example of how doctors and hospitals lie or distort the
facts for their own interests, which is one reason healthcare is so
expensive.
...
Does anyone remember the good old days before
'deinstitutionalization'. Psychiatric centers were loaded and could no
longer be finacially supported. It looks like the degree on need is
directly related to the degree of funding.

It looks like they have found that it's possible to use other funding
streams.

This is not limited to just health care. Special education is another
example. And how about The Environment? There was the Club Of Rome
prediction of the early '70s that by this time we would all be
breathing sulfuric acid. Then we don't want to forget the Global
Cooling scare.
There was the Love Canal catastrophe which led to the creations of
still another federal agency.
http://capitaldistrict-lp.org/Environment.shtml
http://capitaldistrict-lp.org/CleanEnvironmentMoney.shtml
http://capitaldistrict-lp.org/PorkNotFish.shtml
Some day enough people will understand that governing is largely about
money - getting it from some and giving it to others.
http://www.capitaldistrict-lp.org/what.shtml
Brian
2009-10-12 18:31:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by RGrannus
Here is one example of how doctors and hospitals lie or distort the
facts for their own interests, which is one reason healthcare is so
expensive.
In testimony before the NJ Assembly Health and Human Services a few
months ago, Dennis McGill, Director of the Emergency Department,
Somerset Medical Center, gave a few examples of how they had to hold
patients in the emergency department for days before they could find a
.
"On a recent weekend, for example, we had a shift where we were
holding nine patients that were waiting psychiatric disposition" and
how it took days to find a bed in a psychiatric facility for them. He
also notes that "The psychiatric screening is done by a certified
psychiatric screener, who determines if the patient needs to be
hospitalized." The implication being that there are not enough beds
in psychiatric facilities.
In fact, I recently visited a relative with depression who was in two
psychiatric wards in New Jersey for a week. From what I saw, and from
what he told me, about half the rooms were totally unoccupied. And
the "treatment" he received was essentially nonexistent or useless.
The patients almost never saw a psychiatrist or even a nurse. The
"treatment" consisted of some pep talks from social workers or
counselors. Most of the time they sat around doing nothing.
AFTER being released, he went back to treatment from his own doctor,
who gave him an antidepressant that resolved his depression in a few
weeks. What he did get from the hospitals and associated doctors were
bills for around $30,000.
BTW, those "certified screeners" who determine if a patient needs to
be hospitalized are not psychiatrists or medical professionals at
all. And they have a vested interest in finding patients for
psychiatric wards to justify their jobs. Investigation found that
some screeners and doctors were getting bounties from psychiatry
hospitals and wards for directing patients to them. The hospitals get
paid one way or another--through insurance, by the patient himself if
not insured (and they charge the uninsured much more), or by charity
care paid by the government for impoverished patients. The
psychiatrists just rubber stamps whatever the screener recommends
since that's also in their own interest.
Read the following articles; here are excerpts: "U.S. Representative
Patricia Schroeder of Colorado held hearings investigating the
practices of psychiatric hospitals in the United States. Her
committee's summary: "Our investigation has found that thousands of
adolescents, children, and adults have been hospitalized for
psychiatric treatment they didn't need; that hospitals hire bounty
hunters to kidnap patients...that psychiatrists are being pressured by
the hospitals to increase profit; that hospitals 'infiltrate' schools
by paying kickbacks to school counselors who deliver students; that
bonuses are paid to hospital employees, including psychiatrists, for
keeping the hospital beds filled.
"The supposed experts responsible for these "diagnoses" are usually
biased in favor of commitment because of their personal economic
concerns or their affiliation with the psychiatric "hospital" or ward
where the "patient" is or will be confined. Psychiatric "hospitals",
like all businesses, need customers. In the case of psychiatric
"hospitals" [or wards], they need patients. They not only want
patients, they need them to stay in business. Similarly, individual
psychiatrists and psychologists need patients to make money and earn a
living....Keeping all those psychiatric beds filled is critical, and
administrators are aggressively ensuring that they will be. Some
facilities even resort to paying employees and others bonuses of $500
to $1,000 per referral. An administrator at a psychiatric "hospital"
told me competition between psychiatric hospitals is "cut throat".
Combine this intense competition with America's poorly written
involuntary commitment laws and judges who refuse to impose protection
from unwarranted commitment that bona-fide due process requires, and
the result is a lot of people being deprived of liberty and suffering
psychiatric stigma unjustifiably."
http://www.antipsychiatry.org/unjustif.htm
"Some psychiatric hospitals made a practice of admitting adolescents
in distress, using the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. The federal
government finally intervened, charging the hospitals with fraud and
assessing fines of millions of dollars. Many of these children did
not have bipolar disorder at all, but were acting inappropriately
because of stresses in their families, with their friends, and at
school." --Edward Drummond, M.D., Associate Medical Director at
Seacoast Mental Health Center, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, in _The
Complete Guide to Psychiatric Drugs_ (John Wiley & Sons, Inc., New
York, 2000, pages 13-14.) Dr. Drummond graduated from Tufts
University School of Medicine and was trained in psychiatry at Harvard
University."
http://www.cchr.org/take_action/report_psychiatric_abuse.html
"Vulnerable people who have sought help from psychiatrists and
psychologists have been falsely diagnosed and forced to undergo
unwanted and often harmful psychiatric methods."
Or to put it more simply, people are greedy and will try to get away with
extracting as much money from others as they can.
It's true in healthcare (maybe especially so since there are so many
opportunities for fraud) as in everything else.

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